![[info]](http://www.insanejournal.com/img/userinfo.gif){kind=small}
Poll!
curiousPUBLICATION ON SIYE IS A PRIVILEGE, NOT A RIGHT! Therefore, you should be aware that your story may be refused on plot, characterisation or other grounds if it is determined to be incompatible with SIYE's aims.
In particular, Harry and Ginny should be plausibly in-character; you're writing about them, not original characters who happen to have the same names. The characters don't belong to the writer, but to JKR. The SIYE Staff has an obligation to treat them respectfully.
The following are a few examples, please keep in mind they are not all inclusive:
• JKR's Harry is not a drug user, so you can't write a story about him being one.
• The Golden Trio don't go out at night binge drinking so you can't make them out as drunks.
• Ginny doesn't shag every guy in her year, so don't make her out to be excessively promiscuous.
What exactly is "excessively promiscuous"? Does it mean having sex before marriage? Or sex with more than, say, five people before marriage? Or just sex with upwards of ten partners? I'm just curious. This, of course, makes me wonder if other people feel that certain activities should be excluded from Harry Potter fanfiction to keep the characters as in character as if JKR had written it.
ETA: In order to avoid some confusion, I do not agree with the SIYE owners/mods here. I think the idea of there being restrictions on fiction absurd. (What's that one rule? You know, the "if it exists, there is porn for it" one...Well, it can kind of be applied here in "if it exists, there is fanfiction for it".) The only reason I even made this poll (well, these polls) is because there are people on SIYE that agree. And I don't think it necessarily comes from being a H/G shipper. Because I'm a die-hard H/G-er and I don't agree, and there are others on the site that don't agree as well.
So, a poll:
Poll #979 What is and isn't acceptable in Harry Potter fanfiction
Open to: All, results viewable to: All
Should fiction (in general) mirror reality?
Yes
8 (11.3%)
Mostly 19 (26.8%)
Slightly 14 (19.7%)
No 24 (33.8%)
I don't like this question and I'll say something about it in the comments. 6 (8.5%)
Are there any activities you feel should be excluded from HP fanfiction?
Yes 6 (8.3%)
Some 8 (11.1%)
No 58 (80.6%)
I don't like this question and I'll say something about it in the comments. 0 (0.0%)
If you answered "Yes" to the question above, tell me what should be excluded.
Should abuse (physical, sexual, and/or emotional) be allowed in HP fanfiction?
Yes to all three types 60 (84.5%)
Physical 2 (2.8%)
Sexual 1 (1.4%)
Emotional 3 (4.2%)
Only under certain circumstances 13 (18.3%)
Only as a plot device 10 (14.1%)
No to all three types 1 (1.4%)
I don't like this question and I'll say something about it in the comments. 1 (1.4%)
Should substance abuse (drugs, alcohol, and/or potions) be allowed in HP fanfiction?
Yes 57 (80.3%)
Drugs 2 (2.8%)
Alcohol 3 (4.2%)
Potions 4 (5.6%)
Only under certain cirumstances 13 (18.3%)
Only as a plot device 7 (9.9%)
No to all three 0 (0.0%)
I don't like this question and I'll say something about it in the comments. 1 (1.4%)
Should sexuality (heterosexuality and/or homosexuality) be allowed in HP fanfiction?
Yes 67 (93.1%)
Heterosexuality 6 (8.3%)
Homosexuality 6 (8.3%)
Only under certain circumstances 4 (5.6%)
Only as a plot device 3 (4.2%)
No 0 (0.0%)
I don't like this question and I'll say something about it in the comments. 3 (4.2%)
Should underage sexuality (heterosexuality and/or homosexuality) be allowed in HP fanfiction?
Yes 53 (74.6%)
Heterosexuality 6 (8.5%)
Homosexuality 6 (8.5%)
Only if both characters are above a certain age. 15 (21.1%)
Only as a plot device 4 (5.6%)
No 2 (2.8%)
I don't like this question and I'll say something about it in the comments. 1 (1.4%)
At what age(s) is sexuality acceptable in HP fanficiton?
Younger than 13 19 (28.8%)
13 8 (12.1%)
14 15 (22.7%)
15 26 (39.4%)
16 30 (45.5%)
17 23 (34.8%)
18+ 22 (33.3%)
It isn't acceptable at all. 0 (0.0%)
I don't like this question and I'll say something about it in the comments. 8 (12.1%)
How many sexual partners for any given character are acceptable in HP fanfiction?
None 10 (16.1%)
1 17 (27.4%)
2 17 (27.4%)
3 14 (22.6%)
4 12 (19.4%)
5 12 (19.4%)
6 11 (17.7%)
7 10 (16.1%)
8 10 (16.1%)
9 9 (14.5%)
10+ 31 (50.0%)
I don't like this question and I'll say something about it in the comments. 15 (24.2%)
How many sexual partners for any given underage character are acceptable?
None 17 (27.0%)
1 19 (30.2%)
2 16 (25.4%)
3 11 (17.5%)
4 9 (14.3%)
5 10 (15.9%)
6 8 (12.7%)
7 8 (12.7%)
8 9 (14.3%)
9 8 (12.7%)
10+ 22 (34.9%)
I don't like this question and I'll say something about it in the comments. 15 (23.8%)
Do you think Hogwarts should have sex-ed classes in HP fanfiction?
Yes 29 (42.0%)
Only under certain circumstances 17 (24.6%)
Only as a plot device 18 (26.1%)
No 8 (11.6%)
I don't like this question and I'll say something about it in the comments. 7 (10.1%)
Is teen pregnancy acceptable in HP fanfiction?
Yes 48 (67.6%)
Only under certain circumstances 12 (16.9%)
Only as a plot device 14 (19.7%)
No 3 (4.2%)
I don't like this question and I'll say something about it in the comments. 3 (4.2%)
Should graphic violence be allowed in HP fanfiction?
Yes 47 (66.2%)
Some, but not a whole lot 16 (22.5%)
Only if it's brief 6 (8.5%)
Only as a plot device 9 (12.7%)
No 0 (0.0%)
I don't like this question and I'll say something about it in the comments. 2 (2.8%)
Poll #980 What is and isn't acceptable in Harry Potter fanfiction, cont'd
Open to: All, results viewable to: All
In regards to abuse, which rating(s) is acceptable in HP fanfiction?
G 12 (21.1%)
PG 13 (22.8%)
PG-13 24 (42.1%)
R 26 (45.6%)
NC-17 47 (82.5%)
I don't like this question and I'll say something about it in the comments. 3 (5.3%)
In regards to substance abuse, which rating(s) is acceptable in HP fanfiction?
G 13 (22.8%)
PG 14 (24.6%)
PG-13 26 (45.6%)
R 26 (45.6%)
NC-17 44 (77.2%)
I don't like this question and I'll say something about it in the comments. 2 (3.5%)
In regards to sexuality, which rating(s) is acceptable in HP fanfiction?
G 15 (26.3%)
PG 19 (33.3%)
PG-13 26 (45.6%)
R 28 (49.1%)
NC-17 52 (91.2%)
I don't like this question and I'll say something about it in the comments. 2 (3.5%)
In regards to underage sexuality, which rating(s) is acceptable in HP fanfiction?
G 14 (25.0%)
PG 16 (28.6%)
PG-13 23 (41.1%)
R 28 (50.0%)
NC-17 47 (83.9%)
I don't like this question and I'll say something about it in the comments. 2 (3.6%)
In regards to violence, which rating(s) is acceptable in HP fanfiction?
G 14 (24.6%)
PG 17 (29.8%)
PG-13 23 (40.4%)
R 31 (54.4%)
NC-17 46 (80.7%)
I don't like this question and I'll say something about it in the comments. 2 (3.5%)
Anything else?
When it comes to the writing of fanfiction, I think that everyone should feel free to explore whatever concepts they want. If I don't like a concept that they explore I simply don't read it. I think the rules are a bit extreme, because fanfiction is where we explore the land of whatifs after all.
In regard to my answer on the chan question, I don't tend to read sex stories with the characters under 16 myself, but I don't feel like I or anyone else has the right to prevent people from exploring underage sex at very young ages. If that makes sense.
Thanks!
In regard to my answer on the chan question, I don't tend to read sex stories with the characters under 16 myself, but I don't feel like I or anyone else has the right to prevent people from exploring underage sex at very young ages. If that makes sense.
I agree, mostly. The only reason I didn't choose all of the options was because sex under 14 squicks me. Of course, I had a friend in middle school who had to drop out because her fifteen year-old boyfriend got her pregnant. They got married (in Arkansas, it's legal for two underage people to marry so long as their parents agree and they're 13 or older...)...
I personally think that just because the original author of any source material didn't handle something doesn't mean it should automatically limit a fanfic author. Some of the best HP fics that I've personally read have been of a dark nature and as such have explored some of these areas.
That said, I can respect an archive owner that does not want something on their archive. At the end of the day it's their site. That said, any popular fandom is going to have to deal with bad fanfiction at the height of it's popularity. That doesn't mean that a talented writer can't take something that may be considered OOC (i.e. Harry has a drug problem or Ginny's a bit promiscious) and make it work for their fic.
Harry's not a drug user. Okay. Hmmm. That Felix Felicis sure left him in an altered state of consciousness, don't you think? ;-)
My problem with most of these questions is that they are obviously either value judgements or arbitrary. And are therefore all entirely subjective.
I had more than ten sexual partners before I got married. Does that me a slut? I've been monogamous for twenty years. I think I'd object to that.
Teens have sex, try drugs and do stupid things. Fic explores "reality" (well, the reality of a magical world) through the lens of the characters. Hey, JKR gave Harry a chest monster when he was sixteen—are you telling me the rest of these folks don't have any libido at all?
What bothers me is ignoring the books. Writing fics about Harry's heavy drug use during school would be a tough sell—we see him all the way through and all he indulges in is a couple of shots of firewhisky and lots of butterbeer. Likewise fics that try to make a case for Uncle Vernon sexually abusing Harry. Um... Okay. While we're at it, lets decide that Harry has blond hair and doesn't wear glasses. Making Hermione a gum-snapping bimbo who wears tight clothes... without saying why in God's name she would be acting that way. Having Draco say something smart or funny. That kind of thing.
Fic shouldn't be about 'nice' things—it should be about everything that literature is about. Drugs, sex, violence... Just don't try to archive it at SIYE! :-p
That's actually what I was going for. Well, the value judgment part anyway. Because SIYE's new rules are entirely subjective. I was really just wondering who agreed with them or and who didn't.
I completely agree with everything else you've said in your comment, btw. :)
I stumbled upon this poll accidentally and thought I might leave a reply, so here goes nothing.
First of all, I'd like to point out that I'm an admin at SIYE, but not an archivist (the difference being that I really have no say in what fics get approved or rejected, but on the other hand, I get to voice my opinion on new rules and whatnot). This wasn't intended as bragging (really pointless in this environment :) ), but just to let you know that I'm familiar with what goes on 'behind the scenes'.
The 'new rule' (I'll explain later why this term is under quotes) didn't really appear just out of the blue. It isn't a whim of the owners/admins/archivists/higher powers. It's a result of something that has been going on the site for quite some time. All of you who visit the site on a more or less regular basis, are aware that the site had its fair share of problems (denial of service attacks, hacking attempts etc.). Instead of finger pointing, I'll say that some of the reasons for these nuisances are 'ship wars' or whatever you call them. All of this culminated after DH, since the H/G ship was 'officially confirmed'.
These occurrences are pathetic IMHO, as everyone is entitled to their opinion, choice of beverage, religion, or HP ship. In the end, you choose what you read/write for yourself.
One of the more 'subtle' ways of attacking SIYE were fics that portrayed the main characters in a rather bad manner. As the purpose of the archive is clear, of course those fics have been rejected (they have been rejected long before the actual rule was posted, hence the prior quotes). So this was only a way to rectify the situation.
Many people have said that this basically kills of the AU. This is hardly the case. As long as the changes you made offer explanation for the different traits the characters develop, you're fine. Note that this should be presented as a natural progression of reacting to the changed environment/events and not causa sui.
If you look through the archive, you'll notice that some fics indeed have Harry & co drinking, getting high or simply having sex like rabbits.
Those fics also offer a reason for such actions.
People made a big deal out of 3 examples which weren't the actual reason for the rule. A few weeks prior to the new rule, there were dozens of submissions that changed the characters of Harry and Ginny completely, without ANY explanation whatsoever. Maybe on other sites this is acceptable, on SIYE it isn't, and we consider it bad writing. All that was necessary for those fics to pass was a plausible explanation for such development. As none was offered, the fics got rejected.
You have to understand that SIYE is rather conservative, and as a private site, it has every right to be that way. All of the original rules are only a reflection of the owner's wishes, while others are our reactions to the situation.
SIYE doesn't have a NC-17 section as the matter is rather delicate, and other sites had legal issues with this. No need to explore this further.
There is a big difference between a plot device and a cheap plot thrill, and plot devices need to be carefully crafted.
(...)
I clicked that I'd discuss in the comments for almost everything because it very much depends on the story. There are a lot of very good authors who use fiction to explore social issues. There are some who, lyke, just think Draco is soooooooooo sexy and want to write about him getting off with some pretty wish fulfillment transfer student, but there are also some who are serious about writing as a means of communication. For example, Minisinoo has a couple of fantastic novel-length re-writes of OotP and following on in which Cedric survived book four, but was hit with a curse that's left him with degenerative nerve damage. It's an incredibly well-written universe in which he and Hermione are involved, they have teen sex, and it talks about the difficulties in having a relationship with someone who's disabled. It also casts Umbridge in an incredibly creepy light (having her perving on Cedric, for example) which almost touches on abuse issues. She also has a universe in which Cedric is gay in a very homophobic wizarding world, which deals with his shame-issues over it.
You can't make a blanket statement about what should be allowed, or what's acceptable, because it's more about how it's done. I read fic that's well-written, believable and interesting. A good writer can make me believe anything. Even Draco as a Hufflepuff or Ravenclaw. (No, really, the sequels to Stealing Harry, Laocoon's Children, have a Hufflepuff Draco, and Maya has him as a Ravenclaw in If You've A Ready Mind. And it makes me slightly sad to realise right now that a lot of people these days have probably not heard of Stealing Harry...)
I haven't figured out how to make the comments have a solid background, while at the same time not eliminating the black and pink background. It'd be worse if the pink of the text was the same pink as the background. :\
I clicked that I'd discuss in the comments for almost everything because it very much depends on the story....
I actually meant in general, done well or badly, should people be allowed to do whatever they want to the HP universe. And, yeah, they are blanket statements; I wanted to know if people feel the same way the owner(s) of SIYE obviously do--that it's ok to make those sort of blanket statements.
Personally, I agree with you. I love AU fics, if they're done well. I love fic that's done well period, regardless of content (in regards to things other than shipping, that is...I'm pretty specific about my shipping). I take that sort of thing on a case-by-case basis, so to speak, and I think others should too.
I didn't answer the "how many partners" for underage characters as I see this as part of characterisation. If the author makes me buy it (or has a good time writing under-age Hagrid shagging the entire school) then I'm fine with that *S*
As for ratings, I'd say that's up to the author all over the board so I didn't answer those at all - instead of clicking "will comment" on each one.
(And that doesn't mean that the website(?) in question doesn't have right to choose what they host. But writers certainly can write what they want and just post it in an appropriate place.)
I think out of the issues, I'd have more problem with abuse and drug abuse as opposed to sexuality and pregnancy. By that I mean, sex is a part of life and not something you can deny nor is pregnancy, which is bound to happen as long as sex is rampant. Drugs and abuse are more unnecessary, so don't have to exist in fanfiction, but are something that blatantly do exist and are a darker side of life so I'm not going to criticise someone for using them if that's what they want to use.
here via daily_snitch
I said I didn't like the first question because I'm not quite sure what you mean by "mirroring reality." Do you mean "reality" as the universe we're given in the HP books? Or the "reality" that we all live in our day to day lives (which is of course a bit different for all of us, though there are some human truths that we share)? In either case, I don't think fiction has to mirror reality -- that's why it's fiction. I do like it when a story stays close to canon, and I do like it when a story stays close to my understanding of the world around me. But I also like fics that challenge my understanding of the characters or the world too.
I hope some of that made sense...
(Anonymous)
~purple_ladybug1 at lj
P.S. I like your layout.
10+ sexual partners :) But again, that doesn't mean that it's a requirement for all. It's just that it could happen to any character(s) if the plot calls for it.
Overall, I support writers' freedom, especially when adults are writing for adults. Stories written for younger audiences should take their ages into account, of course :)
The SIYE Staff can do what they please, it's fine with me. I am sure that their rules are wonderful for like-minded writers and readers.
I think as a writer of fanfiction you are free to write about anything you want, whether it's to the reader's liking in the end doesn't matter. I for one prefer fanfiction where the characters are IC, close to the original ones and where the situations and settings of the fic resemble the ones I know and love from the books.
The first question whether fiction should mirror reality I answered with "mostly", because reality for me is the reality (canon) we know from the books on the one hand and on the other hand it's the things we know from our own reality. I can deal with and find sci-fi and fantasy and the like satisfying but even in those genres I have to find reality to some extend. It must be believable and authentic. JKR managed to write the HP books so authentic and she explained everything so realistic and believable that you have no problem at all believing in the the magic world. That's what I like when reading fics. Everything can go when it's written authentically. (Still, I find it hard to believe in the concept of mpreg even when there are good explanations for the occurrence of this phenomenon given.)
Therefore I enjoy reading HP fan fics which deal with delicate topics such as substance abuse, violence or sexual abuse. As long as they are well and believable written. In fact violence is not so unusual for the HP books itself. We find lots of violence there, beginning with that kind of violence Harry has to endure at his aunt and uncle's home, to the violence he has to deal with whilst fighting Voldemort. I don't mind that at all.
But what I mind is when those fics are not well written or when there is too much violence at once in the fic. I find it rather too overdone in that case. Mostly all the characters act OOC and I find it hard to recognize the canon in those fics.
I don't say that you can't make Harry a drug addict without making him OOC. Surely, in the books Harry doesn't do drugs, but when it is plausibly explained and Harry still acts so that I actually recognize Harry Potter from the books, so that I don't find it hard to imagine him taking drugs then I don't have a problem with it. I would still consider Harry IC in that fic.
Uhm, I hope this wasn't too confusing to understand.
The idea that fanfic must portray only the reality in the books is... interesting. Can't use fic to explore "what would Harry & Ginny's relationship be like, if Harry had learned to use his Invisicloak to sneak Firewhiskey, and became a teenage drunk." Can't use it to address "what if Ginny'd gotten pregnant during her 7th year--by whom, and what did she do, and how'd Harry deal with that later?"
I'm always baffled that anyone wants to put rules about what people can write about. I can understand "I won't host [X] content at my site," but not "OMG [Harry/Ginny/Draco/etc.] is NOT [gay, a druggie, a slut, sexually involved with a teacher, a serial killer, whatever], and therefore you must never, ever write fic that imagines it that way!"
It's like they think fanfic has a chance of being picked up as the next novel in the series, or something. Like those of us who write Snape/Harry non-con are somehow ruining the Potter universe for everyone else... as if Harry were tarnished by all those pervy stories written about him.
As if Harry lived. As if he were a real person, with a real rep to be damaged. As if my friends saying "of course he was boinking Snape all through 6th year" would get overheard by the Harry/Ginny fans, and they'd think less of him, and maybe think Ginny could find herself someone better. *blink*
Anywho, I personally do not like some of the situations listed in your poll, but I wouldn't say they are "unacceptable" in fandom, so I left them blank. I mean, I don't want to read about Professor Flitwick having sex with, say, Luna, but I say "Go for it!" to anyone who wants to write it.
...I forgot my point... Hufflepuff Pride
I like canon and don't like it when it contradicts the characters. Case in point is slash. Male homosexual activity written by heterasexual women. It only seems to occure in fan fiction and I haven't a clue why. Are women showing their masucline side?
I just don't see Harry and his honeybunch Draco, or Serius (forever portrayed as gay in fan fiction no mater what JKR does to change that) and his fling with Remus and or Snape. The irony was that the only gay character was Dumbledore. Never shown as gay in fan fiction. But then, he is too old. Old people (over 70) don't have sex in fan fiction.
(Anonymous)
First let me say, I am rather unhappy about the rules SIYE have been bringing in. I think they're wrong-headed and deeply foolish, and will do little to improve the overall quality of the fic to be found there.
I'm not especially fond of restricting any kind of writing, to suggest that some subjects are somehow taboo or off-limits. It's a stupid attitude to take, not to mention a dull one. On the other hand, I've seen the 'what topics are acceptable in fandom' discussion topic go round and round and it's always posited as 'absolute freedom of speech/think of the children' and I never find myself agreeing with either side.
The thing is, I don't agree that writers should avoid certain subjects, but that the same time, I tend to think that plot points such as sexual abuse, incest, rape, depression (etc, etc) ought to be treated with a certain amount of awareness and respect...not because that's moral, particularly, but because not to treat them as the major problems they are is (to my mind at least) lacking in artistic integrity...it's bad writing. And good writing for me is, or ought to be, the real imperative and...
I'm not sure if that's remotely helpful. I wouldn't judge anyone for writing about dark subject matter, but I definitely will judge if their writing is any good or not, and most treatments of serious issues that I come across in fandom tend to be rather frivolous.
I don't agree with the mods - I think it's dumb - and I think there are rather more pressing issues when it comes to SIYE's quality control, but...whether this labels a fandom conservative or not (not something I want to be) I do understand the frustration with shallow treatments of serious, powerful and dark subjects that I think is, at least somewhat, implied here.
(Incidentally I couldn't seem to take the poll)
My only clause is that things should really have a point in the story, and should be used for plot. If Ginny's off screwing every guy at Hogwarts while underage and on heroin and the only point of the story is that she's a drugged slut, that's not cool. Only use it if it's got a purpose.
Well, there's my two cents :)